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Oh dear
I understand the temptation, but I very much doubt that anything Nick Griffin could have said in his press conference could have got him the publicity and made him look good to those who voted for him as being pelted by eggs outside Westminster. Doing this just makes him look like a martyr.
As a Liberal, I disapprove of treating any democratically elected representative this way, but even if you don't, I challenge you to convince me that this sort of protest doesn't just play straight into the BNP's hands. They want to be seen in the media being attacked and silenced - a lot of their core support are people who feel that they have no voice, so anything that looks as though this is a deliberate conspiracy to silence them will ring true.
As a Liberal, I disapprove of treating any democratically elected representative this way, but even if you don't, I challenge you to convince me that this sort of protest doesn't just play straight into the BNP's hands. They want to be seen in the media being attacked and silenced - a lot of their core support are people who feel that they have no voice, so anything that looks as though this is a deliberate conspiracy to silence them will ring true.
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It feels wrong to respect the BNP. But I do, at least, respect that enough people voted for them to get two MEPs elected. Those people may have voted for people I loathe, but they've done it in sufficient numbers that they've got a voice that has a right to be listened to (and, mindful of recent conversations, I believe that 'right' was given to them by their participation in a democratic system I support). Obviously, having listened to them, I may disagree with them in the strongest possible terms, but I do feel that we should listen, and should be seen to listen.
Again, I'm a Liberal, so that's a point of principle for me. However, even for non-Liberals, I think it's a point of practicality in this case; anything that makes the BNP look like victims of a conspiracy to silence them by 'the establishment' will strengthen their ability to recruit from the people who feel that politicians don't represent them. Which is a lot of people at this point.
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Not to mention that these idiots have actually gone and made Griffin look as if he's been telling the truth all these years! GAH! The man's probably been rubbing his hands together in utter glee all afternoon. Making Nick Griffin happy is not high on my list of priorities, funnily enough.
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I think this goes to the heart of the matter, really. What I am really hoping for is a society where the BNP becomes less popular, and that's the single most important thing. If, as I believe, encouraging a martydom/plucky underdog complex will increase its popularity, then I perceive that as something to be avoided. I think the crux of the disagreement here is whether that is actually the case or not, and that's a valid and interesting debate in my view.
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Very much my view as well.
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Re your last para, I think it is important for those drawn to the BNP to see how much they are hated and/or not given legitimacy (and elected or not, for me inciters of racial hatred just dont have legitimacy).
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It's not that I think liberal democracy is 'ultimate justice in a capitalist society' - at least, I don't think it's that; I'm not completely sure what you mean by that anyway - it's that it's a system I currently endorse. That could change, but electing two BNP MEPs, no matter how unhappy that makes me feel, isn't enough to make me reject the system. And given that I don't reject the system, I have an obligation to work within it.
It makes sense to me that someone like you who broadly speaking does reject the system feels no obligation to accept the results. I think that's a consistent position - as I said above, there are circumstances under which I'd reject the system in a similar way to the way you do here.
On whether or not the BNP - and those who vote for them - have a right to be listened to, I realise that's a tricky one. I emphasise again that I don't think it's an absolute right, but one that I'm (through gritted teeth) granting them conditionally. I do realise that many people wouldn't even grant them that, and that is a clear political and ideological divide as much as anything.
I think it is important for those drawn to the BNP to see how much they are hated and/or not given legitimacy
I can't work out whether or not I think that's important. I think it's important (but very hard to achieve) that they realise why a lot of people disagree strongly with their views, and that they take a good long hard look at whether or not they actually agree with the views of the people they elected. Making them feel hated has the unfortunate likely side-effect of making them feel as though they have common cause, and I think can only increase the BNP's strength; I'm not sure I want that just for the satisfaction of letting them know they're hated.
That said, if I had an egg in my hand and saw Nick Griffin, my hand would twitch.
If I thought making them feel hated would stop them voting BNP, I might be OK with it. I see it as likely to have the opposite effect. These are people who feel that society has largely abandoned them; they're not likely to give much of a toss about its approval. In fact, they may see the hatred of society as welcome attention, and a sign that they're doing the right thing.
And if you're proposing disenfranchising as large a number of people as voted for the BNP, it's going to get bloody. You (and
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But more generally, no I don't think that the fact they participate in democracy, and achive some limited success, gives them, or their supporters, any right to respect on any kind of level from the rest of us anyway. You don't get points for doing what you're supposed to do. Nor do I think the proper response is to listen to them even for a minute. Listening can only mean one of two things: either you are open to the possibility the policies they suggest are worth considering or you are going through the motions so you can say "I listened to them". You won't understand why people voted for them, or what the problems of this society are, both of which are indeed necessary, by listening to them or respecting them.
Noxious views are still noxious views no matter how many people vote for them and frankly I think egg pelting and other forms of demonstrating utter contempt has an entirely honourable and proper place in the democratic debate. As does farting in their general direction.
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