djm4_lj: (Eyes)
[personal profile] djm4_lj
Charles Clarke, you are a pillock. And you just have no idea how to respond to any of this, do you?

The Muslim community has already been - very vocally - 'standing out' against the bombings. And just as you are 'shocked' that the bombers could be British, so the Muslim community is shocked that the bombers could be Muslim. Genuinely. It goes against everything they believe in. And telling them that they especially need to speak out against it is just rubbing salt into the wound.

And where, exactly are you going to 'deport' British citizens to? Australia stopped taking our home-grown criminals quite a while ago, you know.

Date: 2005-07-13 10:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] essbee80.livejournal.com
I just woke up and this was the first thing I saw in my news feed. Yes i'm shocked they are British too but not all Brits are nice people just like all "Arabs" arent terrorists. I'm too tired to get angry about it but I'll just grrrrr

Date: 2005-07-13 10:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] uon.livejournal.com
IHNJ, IJLTS "fermenting terrorism", growing bombers in vats. I suppose one might need to foment beer in the winter, too.

Date: 2005-07-13 10:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] uon.livejournal.com
(although I suppose this is precisely the sort of thing that led to the Yeastier Rising in 1916..)

Date: 2005-07-13 10:40 am (UTC)

Date: 2005-07-13 10:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] drdoug.livejournal.com
I suppose this is precisely the sort of thing that led to the Yeastier Rising in 1916.

Almost certainly - I'd say it's been a problem in every beeriod of human history.

Date: 2005-07-13 10:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meirion.livejournal.com
yes, i do tend to like a good cask-strength terrorism as a nightcap ...

-m-

Date: 2005-07-13 11:00 am (UTC)
barakta: (Default)
From: [personal profile] barakta
I thought we suspected they were British born almost immediately. I find it very 'interesting' that we expect muslims and their representative councils to take personal responsibility for any muslim 'terrorists' when we don't expect the Church of England for example to atone and account for every Christian who ever carried out violent or destructive acts....

I was too young to understand and remember the political and general feeling during the IRA's bombing campaign years but I don't feel as if British people or media expected the WHOLE of northern Ireland to take responsibility for IRA and other terrorist acts. Then again I'm happy to be corrected on that one.

Maybe Clarke will do a deal with Bush deport all suspected homegrown terrorists, or possible-terrorists to the Americans. That way they can chuck them into some no-mans-land prison and claim that they have no rights under some dubious definition of losing any rights to citizenship before they've even been proved to have done anything wrong.

Double plus ungood.

Date: 2005-07-13 12:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] latexiron.livejournal.com
My car got blown up by the IRA once and I didn't blame everyone in Ireland (N or S). Indeed I subsequently went to work there. Mind you, it was a little worrying when people came into pubs collecting for the IRA, and you had to try and leave without saying a word...

Date: 2005-07-13 08:01 pm (UTC)
barakta: (Default)
From: [personal profile] barakta
That sounds really nasty as from what little I know of Ireland you /don't/ mess with the IRA or their 'mates' as it were. I admit to knowing a great deal less than I should as it's so complicated.

Keeping mouth shut must have been hard, as would leaving without being 'pointed' about it.

Date: 2005-07-14 12:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] latexiron.livejournal.com
We weren't going to /mess/ with them, we just didn't want them to clock our English accents, so keeping mouth shut was very easy.

Discretion being the better part of valour, and running away being the better part of discretion and all that...

And the publican didn't want them there either, because it was bad for business, but he wasn't going to tell them to bugger off; well, you wouldn't, unless you wanted trouble.

We had these really dumb Americans with us who kept saying things like "Who's this 'Shaun Finn' whose name is written up all over the place?"

Date: 2005-07-13 03:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] plumsbitch.livejournal.com
Indeed. There's also a nasty thread running through Clarke's 'surprise' and many other long-running commentaries which identifies people as neatly and discretely belonging to one tribe.

Underneath which is the notion one can't be 'british' and 'Muslim'/a nice, easy(as someone here says) othering mechanism to identify 'Them' in 'Our' Midst.

Just the sort of culture to send people running into 'Their' arms.

Date: 2005-07-13 08:05 pm (UTC)
barakta: (Default)
From: [personal profile] barakta
Yeah... I can't help feeling if they weren't 'brown skinned' then our media wouldn't be quite so blatantly racist.

The 3rd generation of immigrants who are 'white' don't stand out so much and therefore are less easily targetable. I mean if they had a German grandparent we wouldn't be behaving like this - even if we did imprison a lot of first generation German immigrants during WW2!

Grrr, and I don't know enough to make a reasoned articulate argument against it all other than "It's wrong damnit, stop misrepresenting things argh". I feel desperately sorry for muslims who are being targetted and made to publically apologise because someone who is perceived to be 'one of them' has done something wrong. I mean if they were Yorkshire folk then why is their 'muslim' identity considered more pertinent than their British/Yorkshire one?

Bah.. Inarticulate grrring.

Date: 2005-07-13 11:04 am (UTC)
vampwillow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] vampwillow
Heinlein proposed deporting criminals to the moon ...

Personally, I'm not at all happy with the way the media keep saying they were "UK born of pakistani/asian descent" (my emphasis).

Date: 2005-07-13 02:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] envoy.livejournal.com
As I recall that plan didn't turn out so well for the earth either.

Date: 2005-07-13 04:10 pm (UTC)
vampwillow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] vampwillow
well, the earth has had it so probably about time we moved out there!

Date: 2005-07-13 11:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] purplerabbits.livejournal.com
He's talking about deporting 'those who preach hatred' rather than the bombers themselves, so he presumably believes that visiting Islamic fundamentalist preachers are to blame, thus neatly taking the pressure off the UK for having home grown bombers.

Date: 2005-07-13 11:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] drdoug.livejournal.com
And, of course, the very idea that people might conceivably become suicide bombers entirely on their own, simply by discussing among themselves and reading the news, is ludicrous!

Date: 2005-07-13 11:21 am (UTC)
djm4: (Default)
From: [personal profile] djm4
Well, I rather suspect that this lot didn't, but yes; the whole 'evil mastermind' thing is rather winding me up, too. It's all very James Bond, and gives us a convenient story to frame the 'incident' in that probably bears very little relation to reality.

Date: 2005-07-13 11:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ciphergoth.livejournal.com
We have to find someone else to blame, because there's a slight problem with making a big public show of bringing the bombers themselves to justice...

Date: 2005-07-13 01:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] countess-sophia.livejournal.com
They have the head of one, apparently. A spike on London Bridge would be traditional, and quite in line with the government's back to the middle ages line on criminal justice.

Date: 2005-07-13 01:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] countess-sophia.livejournal.com
I don't know, four young bloodthirsty idiots but with professional planning and supplies provided by one who is actually a member of the core group (which those who actually commit the attentat are not) who acts as an enabler. It's one of the commoner ways for terrorists to operate, cf the history of terrorism in Eastern europe before WWI. The best known example I can think of is Sarajevo, 1914, which worked exactly like this.

The question is, who is the Dimitijevic in this case?

Date: 2005-07-13 12:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] latexiron.livejournal.com
Perhaps we should ban all religions? It's kind of difficult to start a crusade or jihad if you believe in nothing...

Date: 2005-07-13 12:29 pm (UTC)
djm4: (Default)
From: [personal profile] djm4
Oh, I manage to believe in quite a lot, despite being an atheist. Some of my beliefs I'd die for. It's entirely possible that I'd kill for some of them, too - I sincerely hope I'd never become a suicide bomber, but I'm with Jenny Tonge on that; I can't really say because I've never been put into a situation where it looked like a realistic option.

Date: 2005-07-13 12:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jhg.livejournal.com
No hand weapons, teleportation devices or religious persuasion allowed,

Date: 2005-07-13 05:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-musing-amazon.livejournal.com
Unless your name was Dzhugashvili.

Date: 2005-07-14 12:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] latexiron.livejournal.com
Damn, I had to look that up! Didn't know his real name.

Date: 2005-07-13 12:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] latexiron.livejournal.com
We could just cut a bit of England off with a big saw and deport them to there. Which bit should we lose?

Date: 2005-07-13 12:54 pm (UTC)
booklectica: my face (Default)
From: [personal profile] booklectica
It's got to be Cornwall, really. The Tamar is practically a dotted line.

Date: 2005-07-13 01:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] latexiron.livejournal.com
But I thought that Cornwall was in the South, and quite warm and sunny and picture-skew ?

There must be another part we would all miss less!

Date: 2005-07-13 01:26 pm (UTC)
booklectica: my face (doll)
From: [personal profile] booklectica
One of the islands round Scotland, then? You wouldn't even need a saw. Just line up in front of it and push it gently further out to sea...

Date: 2005-07-13 02:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thekumquat.livejournal.com
How about Milton Keynes? If you drive in and don't have a map, you'll never escape.

Date: 2005-07-14 07:38 am (UTC)

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